Very thought provoking, as usual Jack, thank you. Maybe things would be different if women were in charge? Is there history of outcomes in matriarchal societies?
Skyecatcher...thank you. I actually looked at this, since I was initially going to take a different path with this particular article.
The honest answer...is that the historical record doesn't support it...and...the reason is that true matriarchies are just damn HARD to find.
Anthropologists distinguish matrilineal societies...where descent and property pass through the MOTHER'S line...from matriarchal ones...where women hold political power.
PLENTY of the first exist; as for whether any clear examples of the second exist, however... a preliminary search showed they're scarce, at best.
And...interestingly....matrilineal doesn't mean peaceful. The Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) are the CLASSIC example...with clan mothers selecting and removing CHIEFS...and they fought some of the most devastating wars in North American history against their neighbors.
So...perhaps I'll do an article that takes a deep dive into this question...at some point in the future. It's certainly a fascinating question.
Cherokee language is an Iroquoian one. Our clans are passed through the matrilineal line. In old Cherokee history if the home split up, the man left as the house, gardens, etc. belonged to the woman. She kept the children, too, and her brothers helped raise the children.
Yes., Hexxen..and...note how it ends in real life: Aristophanes staged it in 411 BC...and the Peloponnesian War ground on another seven years...until Athens lost in 404. The comedy imagined the women stopping the war. The history says nobody did. Even our satire about ending war is 2,400 years old...and still unfulfilled.
Thanks for the information. Jack. It is more than I knew, yet it is so extremely tragic.
As Eleanor Roosevelt said, “I hate war.” She also pointed out that nobody wins in war. Even though some necessary gains are made to help people, and even though I remain proud of my family members who served in World War II., I find it all so terribly sad that anybody is harmed, that anybody dies, that rage is part of the human dynamic, that many innocent people, animals, and environments suffer, and that good people are forced into warring situations beyond their own choices when they probably joined because help was needed or because it seemed that serving was a good idea, and then all out war broke out beyond their control.
I do know a number of individuals, some living, some passed now, who did much good for people while they were in one branch or another of the service.
Yes, the women in Lysistrata were wise and kept the men from going back to war, solely based on their agreement, although the women were not governing.
In some indigenous tribes, women ruled. I do not recall which tribes those were or whether they remained peaceful.
World military spending hit $2.7 trillion in 2024, up 9.4%... the steepest jump since the Cold War ended...and the 10th straight year of increases. Over 100 countries spent MORE. There's no line item that size for peace...and...NO shareholder asking why the peace division missed its numbers!
For those who haven't read it...Hillman isn't arguing peace is possible. He's arguing something worse: that we're half IN LOVE with war. His book...explains the APPETITE. Mine..explains the MECHANICS. Same conclusion...different door.
Great article. I love the way you speak the truth, no matter how unpopular or non-trendy. Now, if only someone would write an analogous piece about why we'll never get rid of child sexual abuse, the prevalence of which has got to be significantly higher than most people are willing to admit. (I have theories about this, of course!)
In 2007 or 08...I was in Atlanta at the Jimmy Carter Presidential Library, attending a speech by CNN founder Ted Turner.
At the time, I was training Fortune 500 companies...and asked Ted for his insights on being a better speaker. He said this: "You want credibility? Then say the thing that empties the room just as plainly as the thing that fills it. Folks can smell the difference, and they never forget which one you chose."
I took that to heart...and it has served me well.
I'll take your challenge on the "child sex abuse" piece. That grabbed my attention the instant I read it. Look for it in the future.
War may be inevitable, but the boys-camp study doesn't prove it. Robbers Cave gets cited as proof that group hostility forms on its own. It doesn't. Gina Perry's archival work (The Lost Boys) shows the staff goaded the boys into conflict, and that the year before, an earlier run fell apart because the boys made friends across groups and refused to fight. I happen to have preached on this today so it's fresh in my mind
Yes...Perry's archival work holds up: Sherif was CONFIRMING a hypothesis, not TESTING one.
The most accurate version of Robbers Cave is that it shows hostility can be manufactured EASILY...which is its OWN uncomfortable finding...given that manufacturing it...is EXACTLY what political and wartime propaganda does. Tajfel shows the raw material is already there.
Where I'd push back...is that Tajfel's WHOLE point was that social categorization...ALONE...with no conflict of interest and nobody egging anyone on...was enough.
It's been replicated for fifty years...and it's the foundation of social identity theory.
I'd also note...Middle Grove doesn't quite prove the sunny reading either. The boys did NOT stop forming an in-group. Interestingly...they just picked a DIFFERENT out-group: the ADULTS running the camp.
Curious what the sermon angle was. I love it when sermons utilize modern-day research and historical examples...as at least part of the points being made.
I'm afraid you are right Jack, but we must keep trying. If we can provide free health care, free education, (not training) and a livable minimum wage perhaps we can get a majority of our citizens educated to the point they are immune to the lies of self serving politicians, religious zealots and corporate greed.........or maybe not.
P.S. Skyecatcher raised a good question. Any thoughts? (I've been voting for women for president since Elisabeth Warren.)
Thanks for bringing this up, I hate to admit it but I believe your conclusions to be valid. I probably will still advocate for peace, even though it might not be probable. 🙏🏻🥰🌻
Tribalism is inherently wired into the human minds. With that comes individuals within even a peaceful society who wants power and control over others, saying it’s for the good of the tribe. It creates tensions with neighboring tribes, and so on and so forth. All through the centuries, going through cycles of peace, oppression, and wars. It’s a story as old as time. It’s how we react to it to make our time better.
Very thought provoking, as usual Jack, thank you. Maybe things would be different if women were in charge? Is there history of outcomes in matriarchal societies?
Skyecatcher...thank you. I actually looked at this, since I was initially going to take a different path with this particular article.
The honest answer...is that the historical record doesn't support it...and...the reason is that true matriarchies are just damn HARD to find.
Anthropologists distinguish matrilineal societies...where descent and property pass through the MOTHER'S line...from matriarchal ones...where women hold political power.
PLENTY of the first exist; as for whether any clear examples of the second exist, however... a preliminary search showed they're scarce, at best.
And...interestingly....matrilineal doesn't mean peaceful. The Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) are the CLASSIC example...with clan mothers selecting and removing CHIEFS...and they fought some of the most devastating wars in North American history against their neighbors.
So...perhaps I'll do an article that takes a deep dive into this question...at some point in the future. It's certainly a fascinating question.
-Jack
Cherokee language is an Iroquoian one. Our clans are passed through the matrilineal line. In old Cherokee history if the home split up, the man left as the house, gardens, etc. belonged to the woman. She kept the children, too, and her brothers helped raise the children.
That would be a good one.
lol…. Aristophanes wrote a play about this…. Lysistrata. Written in 411 BC. 2,437 years ago
Yes., Hexxen..and...note how it ends in real life: Aristophanes staged it in 411 BC...and the Peloponnesian War ground on another seven years...until Athens lost in 404. The comedy imagined the women stopping the war. The history says nobody did. Even our satire about ending war is 2,400 years old...and still unfulfilled.
-Jack
Thanks for the information. Jack. It is more than I knew, yet it is so extremely tragic.
As Eleanor Roosevelt said, “I hate war.” She also pointed out that nobody wins in war. Even though some necessary gains are made to help people, and even though I remain proud of my family members who served in World War II., I find it all so terribly sad that anybody is harmed, that anybody dies, that rage is part of the human dynamic, that many innocent people, animals, and environments suffer, and that good people are forced into warring situations beyond their own choices when they probably joined because help was needed or because it seemed that serving was a good idea, and then all out war broke out beyond their control.
I do know a number of individuals, some living, some passed now, who did much good for people while they were in one branch or another of the service.
Yes, the women in Lysistrata were wise and kept the men from going back to war, solely based on their agreement, although the women were not governing.
In some indigenous tribes, women ruled. I do not recall which tribes those were or whether they remained peaceful.
War is more profitable than peace. How many companies start with the mission of global peace?
A. Hofferkamp...hard to argue.
World military spending hit $2.7 trillion in 2024, up 9.4%... the steepest jump since the Cold War ended...and the 10th straight year of increases. Over 100 countries spent MORE. There's no line item that size for peace...and...NO shareholder asking why the peace division missed its numbers!
-Jack
I highly reccomend "A Terrible Love Of War" by James Hillman.
I recommend it too, Buck!
For those who haven't read it...Hillman isn't arguing peace is possible. He's arguing something worse: that we're half IN LOVE with war. His book...explains the APPETITE. Mine..explains the MECHANICS. Same conclusion...different door.
-Jack
Exactly right. A powerfully enlightening combination.
Great article. I love the way you speak the truth, no matter how unpopular or non-trendy. Now, if only someone would write an analogous piece about why we'll never get rid of child sexual abuse, the prevalence of which has got to be significantly higher than most people are willing to admit. (I have theories about this, of course!)
Thank you, Judith.
In 2007 or 08...I was in Atlanta at the Jimmy Carter Presidential Library, attending a speech by CNN founder Ted Turner.
At the time, I was training Fortune 500 companies...and asked Ted for his insights on being a better speaker. He said this: "You want credibility? Then say the thing that empties the room just as plainly as the thing that fills it. Folks can smell the difference, and they never forget which one you chose."
I took that to heart...and it has served me well.
I'll take your challenge on the "child sex abuse" piece. That grabbed my attention the instant I read it. Look for it in the future.
-Jack
Finally, I have something in life to look forward to!!
War may be inevitable, but the boys-camp study doesn't prove it. Robbers Cave gets cited as proof that group hostility forms on its own. It doesn't. Gina Perry's archival work (The Lost Boys) shows the staff goaded the boys into conflict, and that the year before, an earlier run fell apart because the boys made friends across groups and refused to fight. I happen to have preached on this today so it's fresh in my mind
Yes...Perry's archival work holds up: Sherif was CONFIRMING a hypothesis, not TESTING one.
The most accurate version of Robbers Cave is that it shows hostility can be manufactured EASILY...which is its OWN uncomfortable finding...given that manufacturing it...is EXACTLY what political and wartime propaganda does. Tajfel shows the raw material is already there.
Where I'd push back...is that Tajfel's WHOLE point was that social categorization...ALONE...with no conflict of interest and nobody egging anyone on...was enough.
It's been replicated for fifty years...and it's the foundation of social identity theory.
I'd also note...Middle Grove doesn't quite prove the sunny reading either. The boys did NOT stop forming an in-group. Interestingly...they just picked a DIFFERENT out-group: the ADULTS running the camp.
Curious what the sermon angle was. I love it when sermons utilize modern-day research and historical examples...as at least part of the points being made.
-Jack
I'm afraid you are right Jack, but we must keep trying. If we can provide free health care, free education, (not training) and a livable minimum wage perhaps we can get a majority of our citizens educated to the point they are immune to the lies of self serving politicians, religious zealots and corporate greed.........or maybe not.
P.S. Skyecatcher raised a good question. Any thoughts? (I've been voting for women for president since Elisabeth Warren.)
ABSOLUTELY right, Jack.
Living Creatures are Warriors.
The are also Survivors.
Let's not forget William Golding's 1954 book...Lord of The Flies!
And now admitting that the US has “Space Based” weapons Will gear the whole world up.
The Village Idiot and Co. have the Keys to Death and Hell.
and the volatility of a nap depraved toddler.
Thanks for bringing this up, I hate to admit it but I believe your conclusions to be valid. I probably will still advocate for peace, even though it might not be probable. 🙏🏻🥰🌻
Tribalism is inherently wired into the human minds. With that comes individuals within even a peaceful society who wants power and control over others, saying it’s for the good of the tribe. It creates tensions with neighboring tribes, and so on and so forth. All through the centuries, going through cycles of peace, oppression, and wars. It’s a story as old as time. It’s how we react to it to make our time better.
#HOLDFAST #OUTLAST #STANDFAST