44 Comments
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Steven Erick's avatar

I agree totally.

I have read Project 2025 in its entirety. It provides the precise roadmap that Jack has pointed out. So "makes sense" does in fact, make sense with respect to the current administration's written game plan. We stopped looking at the plan after Trump was inaugurated because the main stream media stopped covering it. The object was no longer shiny enough to attract viewer's attention and advertiser's money.

I know two people whom I respect, that my wife worked with for years. Both are main stream Trumpers and both are very intelligent. But they consumed the MAGA kool-aide so much that it became addictive. Addiction is tough to overcome. So the best I can do with them is to try and understand why they believe the way they do. From their perspective, I suspect they think I am comfortable with the bullshit I'm being fed, just like I think the same about them. There will always be differences of opinion so trying to change their minds is probably a hopeless task. So I try and see from their perspective and then, if necessary, warn them when they are approaching the cliff. I hope they will do the same for me.

gayle's avatar

Where does one go when their favorite cousin, and also a person who is highly intelligent and successful, honestly and truly believes that Bill & Hillary are locked up in Guantanamo?! No proof whatsoever, doesn't matter, they believe it! All I can do is just listen, nod my head in fascination and try to change the subject but for real, it makes me very, very sad.

Jack Hopkins's avatar

Gayle...that sadness you're naming, that's not weakness. That's love...with nowhere to land.

You're grieving someone who's still...right there in front of you, and that's one of the strangest...loneliest aches there is.

You've already understood the thing most people miss: intelligence is no protection here.

Your cousin's smarts aren't failing...they're being "recruited"

A sharp mind builds STURDIER scaffolding under a belief...not weaker. So...the brightness you love in them...is the very thing making the belief harder to move.

That's why proof bounces. The belief isn't doing a "fact" job. It's doing an "IDENTITY" job...or a BELONGING job...or...a "the world is secretly being SET RIGHT" job...and facts can't evict a belief...that was NEVER living in the FACT part of the house. (In short, it sucks.)

Which is also why your instinct of listen...nod...change the subject...is more right than it feels.

Here's the hard truth: arguing the Guantanamo claim head-on doesn't just fail, it CAN'T "strengthen" it...because now it's been defended...and defended beliefs ALWAYS dig in deeper.

You're not being a coward by letting it pass. You're refusing to pour cement.

But, Gayle...I want to gently offer you one reframe...because "all I can do is listen" is selling yourself short.

What you're actually doing...is keeping the relationship intact across the divide. That relationship...is the ONLY road...anything true ever travels back in on.

Minds almost never change in the conversation. As I mentioned to Steven, they change later...quietly...privately...often years on...and almost ALWAYS in the direction of someone who never made them feel stupid...or cast out.

By staying their favorite cousin...instead of becoming their opponent...you're keeping the one bridge that a fact...MIGHT someday cross.

Most people burn that bridge in the first argument...and then wonder why they have no influence left.

So...you don't have to fix it today. You're not failing because you can't. Love them out loud...keep the door open...and let the sadness be what it is...proof that you haven't given up on the person underneath the belief.

That's not nothing, Gayle. That's the WHOLE fight...fought the only way it's actually winnable.

#HoldFast

-Jack

Oh...and everything I've written, above...cuts across what my initial desire is...almost every single time. That's exactly why I think...and write about it; it doesn't come natural for me. I have to DECIDE to behave that way, when I do. My default...in these situations...isn't nearly as kind.

Elizabeth Goodden's avatar

I know the feeling of wanting to immediately shut them out, I commend you for being able to leave the door open a crack. I’m trying, but I must admit with me it’s on a case by case basis. My initial instinct is never, EVER trust a MAGA. That’s hard to ignore and shake off.

gayle's avatar

I only see them about 6 times a year. It has crossed my mind to cut them off, except for the fact that I love my cousin so much. But...I have cut off a others (not family) that are hardcore MAGA's.

Elizabeth Goodden's avatar

I’ll send positive energy your way to strengthen you. Maybe they’ll change their minds….fingers crossed.

Steven Erick's avatar

I appreciate the energy. I will do my best.

gayle's avatar

Oh my goodness, I will take that energy and I thank you very much!

gayle's avatar

Jack, I have no idea how you already knew this but YES, I believe my cousin and his wife's minds have been 'recruited' by the Pastor at their church. My cousin used to volunteer building houses in Tijuana through this same church, lending his skills to many in need within his community as well. He was all about walking the path of Jesus his entire life. However, his church got a new Pastor back in 2016 and this Pastor loves Trump. My cousin now has this attitude of 'tough love for everyone' 'no help, no freebies'. It's so weird to me, to see him seemingly not be as charitable in spirit or deeds as I've known him to be (no doubt he's giving lots of money to his church though). He is still very kind towards me and we still laugh together and like two little kids, we get so excited to see each other, but oh lord almighty, when he brings up politics for a split second my brain says 'run' but I stay, sometimes gripping my chair. Asking him questions about his beliefs made him agitated. A behavior I hadn't ever witnessed in him all our years growing up together. For ten years now, I remind myself, 'shut your mouth, don't say a word, just listen and smile'. lol If I told you all of which he has said/believes since Trump and the new Pastor have commandeered his mind, you would scream laugh yourself into oblivion! Jack, you have made me feel so much better in making me realize, I am doing the best that I can, I seriously needed that validation, thank you. I will #HOLDFAST!

Teri Gelini's avatar

Did they not see them at Obama’s opening of his libtary???? That is sad….

gayle's avatar

Also at the House Hearings. I posed that question and the response was, 'Those are clones created by Bill Gates', as both my cousin and his wife looked at me like I was 'crazy' for not knowing this. They also believe Bill Gates want to turn humans into a food source, I am not kidding.

Kelly Rundel's avatar

Clones…. My mouth is still open 😲

Teri Gelini's avatar

I am sorry they have truly consumed the kool aid in vast quantities. I am lucky that has not appeared in any conversations with people I know on the right. I would be forced to ask them "What the fu*k is wrong with you" and just walk away. They are truly that 30% that will never change.

gayle's avatar

They live in Orange County and it's shocking how many high achieving folks in those beach communities are committed to conspiracies. I know others as well and it saddens me.

gayle's avatar

Oh I know, I sit there and sometimes start to shake a little. Not in anger but in nervousness that I think my cousin is 'crazy' but he's not, he is not crazy just profoundly misguided.

Teri Gelini's avatar

They are hanging on to things for some strange reason that we will never understand

Steven Erick's avatar

They didn't watch and I doubt Fox covered much of the opening.

Cherae Stone's avatar

You are intelligent, pragmatic and kind. I want you on my team!

#HoldFast

Steven Erick's avatar

Thanks. Count me in.

Cherae Stone's avatar

Gotcha!

Jack Hopkins's avatar

Steven...you did the rare thing; you read the actual document.

Most people argue about the plan without ever reading it.

Your point about *why we stopped watching* is the underrated one: the plan didn't go away after the inauguration...the COVERAGE did...because a known quantity doesn't sell ads.

The danger went quiet...not because it shrank...but because it stopped being PROFITABLE to point at. And, sadly...that is the determine factor, more than any other.

But...it's your wife's two colleagues where you landed somewhere wise. You named the symmetry....."they think I'm the one drinking the kool-aid, same as I think it about them."

Most people never get there. Your instinct is right that arguing won't work: when a belief is fused to IDENTITY...evidence HARDENS it...rather than reduces it.

The move you chose...instead...understand first, stay close enough to warn them at the cliff...isn't a consolation prize. It's the WHOLE damn game.

Minds rarely change mid-debate; they change...LATER...quietly...toward someone they never stopped respecting. You're keeping that door open.

"I hope they'll do the same for me."

That's the whole of it, my friend. I like your perspective; it's one that is good for your health.

#HoldFast

-Jack

Steven Erick's avatar

The more we engage the stronger the country gets. I have attempted to engage a couple of my MAGA acquaintances but their refusal, I suspect, is based on a lack of willingness to share facts along with perspectives. I will continue to try without being judgmental - a rally difficult task. Thanks for the support.

Steve (GOLDOF) - Guardian of Liberty Defender of the Faith.

David R. MD's avatar

Whether you want to call it "crazy" or not - it's NOT a clinical issue.

As Jack writes, it's a HUMAN NATURE issue.

It's been with us since the earliest writings recovered.

It's much of what Socrates and Plato (and many scores of others, since and likely before) were talking and writing about.

May Plato didn't call it "malignant narcissism" - and he SAF wasn't tweeting about it - but it's there in his writings.

Jack Hopkins's avatar

Exactly, Dr. David...and you nailed the most important distinction in the whole piece. *Not clinical. Human.*

That matters more than it sounds...because "clinical" quietly smuggles back in the same comfort as "crazy."

It says: this is an aberration...a disorder...a malfunction in a few damaged individuals.

But...if it's "human nature"...ordinary equipment behaving the way ordinary equipment behaves under fear and ambition...then it's NOT rare...and it's NOT someone else's defect.

It's a standing possibility...in ALL of us...and in every society...always. That's the harder truth, and you walked right up to it.

You're dead right about the lineage. NONE of this is new under the sun.

Plato watched a charismatic figure...flatter a frightened crowd...tell them their resentments were righteous...and ride that straight from popular leader...to TYRANT...and he wrote down the sequence...so precisely...it still reads like top-notch reporting.

He even nailed the MECHANISM we've been circling: the demagogue desperately NEEDS an enemy...and HAS to keep producing one...because the fear is the FUE...L and the fuel has to be replenished. Twenty-four centuries ago. No Twitter required.

That's the quietly hopeful part...hiding inside the grim one...by the way. If it were a brand-new disease...we'd be defenseless.

But...it's the oldest pattern we have...which means it's also the most STUDIED...the most SURVIVED...and the most written-about. Every generation that named it...left us notes. Plato's notes. The ones we sourced in the deep piece. Yours, right now, in this comment.

We don't get to call it "malignant narcissism"...and Plato didn't either...but...we're all describing the same animal...and that continuity...is the point. The vocabulary updates. The creature...does NOT.

Naming it across that span...is...itself...a form of resistance, Dr. David. The people running the play would much prefer we think it's unprecedented. They sure as hell would. It never is.

Thank you for being here. Truly.

-Jack

David R. MD's avatar

Thank you!

I'll just say, the point you made bears repeating as it's the most important - we remember Plato centuries later; we still read his writings: because they give us hope that however dark it seems, however insurmountable (however timeless) - it's proof that with determination, we go on; we keep fighting. We're not being counted on to necessarily "win" within any time given frame; we're being counted on to persevere.

Cherae Stone's avatar

BOOM!

Alexis Kelley's avatar

What about the part, Jack, in the “It makes sense,” where both sides of the aisle have made it impossible for people in The Flyover Country to make a living and care for their families? To have decent schools and hospitals? It’s made sense to me for a long time that when you ignore the people in middle America, there will be consequences. It’s like when the twin towers were hit, my reaction was surprise that it took as long as it did. One can only take so much from a bully and that’s America in a nutshell. We started with the natives whose lands we took, then slavery, taking part of Mexico, and now oligarchs. We have meddled and created regime changes and horrors all over the world. None of this means that I won’t continue to fight, but I think our country is one of the worst in the world. We are not exceptional. We are not brave. We do not think critically. We have no moral standing. Okay, that’s my rant for the week.

Ellen Zucker's avatar

Jack, your comments make perfect sense. Project 2025 was a well thought out, well-funded effort backed by over a 100 organizations.

I follow historians who study autocracy who have been saying the same using different language.

What is chilling is to see how their commentary is playing out. But even they concur that we the people can take back our country. Not easy, but doable.

Robyn Campbell's avatar

Looking forward to it!

Teri Gelini's avatar

After reading about project 2025 I knew we were in for a long hard ride. I think there are times the people that created this are having difficulty containing drumpf from saying things out loud they don’t want him to say. He really is a loose cannon at times. I know there are people that have some control over him and I think they do not care if he falls asleep because then he can’t create the wrong chaos. We all have to stay vigilant.

#HOLDFAST

Teri

Elizabeth Goodden's avatar

Yes, Teri I’m glad you said that. Trump’s flapping jaw will bring on unexpected problems and pitfalls they can’t predict. His chaotic mind is working against his handlers desires and we are lucky he can’t control himself, physically, mentally and spiritually. Hope he keeps Leonard Leo awake at night…..

Teri Gelini's avatar

Agree, I have the same hopes for all those involved in project 2025

Sher''s avatar

You nailed it about this version of " crazy". The foes found out the strategy works.

Gary Nelson's avatar

Jack, you are right on! When trusted news sources describe things that are criminal in law or intent as "weird" instead or what they are, attempts to take over power, it brings us to where we are now. Everything that wasn't described as weird or crazy was treated as a "one off" event (since Trump's first term). When are people going to recognize the "duck" when they see it? It's been visible for years!

gayle's avatar

I love that I am always learning something from you, Jack. Fascinating read. I will do a self-check to make sure I am not 'relaxing' into my judgement of others and remain vigilant to their actions. More logic, less emotion is what I am hearing.

Elizabeth Goodden's avatar

Jack, it’s articles like this that make a paid sub to Jack Hopkins Newsletter worth every penny! This is so timely, just in time to pump me up mentally for the long slog ahead. Next to bladder cancer, Trump is now on top of my shit list! I’m inspired to keep on fighting, I’m not going to give up because I defeated one of my personal beasts and am fortunate enough to live to fight another beast, another day and in another way. Kudos for rallying the troops, like Washington did at Valley Forge. You will hold a special place in history! 👍#HOLDFAST

Susan's avatar

We’re in a lot of trouble. This is all over social media. Crazy… Insane.. Nuts… Hell, I’ve even called Trump insane because he acts insane but I’ve also cautioned countless people to read Project 2025 and realize just how genius… and horrifying.. it really is. Most haven’t read it. I read it before the 2024 election. It was a hard read and I didn’t do it in one sitting. I just couldn’t.

I’ll wait for the paid piece to comment further.

Restacked.. sharing with others and across social media. People need to realize just how dangerous this mindset is… and fast.

#Holdfast

~Susan

Elizabeth Goodden's avatar

Yes Susan you are absolutely right, they need to know asap!

Tom Abbott's avatar

Jack-great analysis. I do believe however that these folks are not crazy. They are very calculated and must be dealt with as such. A legally insane person is deemed unable to assist in their own defense when being tried for a crime. These people are far from that. The strong arm of justice must be levered with the truth as the proof. No one should dismiss this behavior or these people as crazy. They are as sane as all of us. They made their choices.

Frank Moore's avatar

As they flood the zone with shit, hold the snorkel and periscope tightly. Let them choke on their own feces. As the Portuguese saying I just made up goes: A shitting clown is a cagalão.

Stranded in gerrymandered red's avatar

As others have noted, I have a close relative who is more well read on the Holocaust than anyone I know (other than a from-birth Jew or a good professor). She is a very caring person who would do anything for someone she knows, and many she does not. Still, she is a Trump supporter ("Well he talks a lot, but he hasn't done that yet"). Then he does "it", but it doesn't appear to register. I just had an imaginary conversation with her, calmly and without accusation, and said all of this to her. It went well in my head. She is my wife's sister, and they are best friends, but neither of us have approached her on this (though the two sisters have talked more openly lately). Every article similar to this we both read. They DO help a lot, and they WILL make a difference. I have long since given up changing the world, but have decided to try to make a difference with ONE person, then another. We will get there, thank you!

Jo Burns's avatar

No words! This app😢