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Cherae Stone's avatar

Detention for profit has never been right nor good. No way, no how. The mere concept makes me fightin’ mad, which of course, doesn’t help anyone.

I’m simply aghast at the arrogance.

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Jack Hopkins's avatar

How right you are , Rae.

Detention for profit has NEVER been right. Not one time. Not in theory. Not in practice. Not with better oversight...nicer language...or a thicker stack of compliance paperwork.

The idea itself...is rotten.

The moment you attach a revenue model to human confinement...you poison the system. You turn suffering...into a line item. You create incentives...that require bodies. And once that machine exists...it doesn’t ask whether detention is necessary...it asks whether capacity is being “fully utilized.”

The casual certainty...that..."this is just how things work," is a bit maddening. The idea that people won’t notice...that the paperwork will blur the moral lines...and that invoices will muffle outrage.

Your anger makes sense...It’s a sane response...to an insane structure.

The trick...which is hard as hell, I know...is to let that anger sharpen your vision instead of burning it out. Because clarity...not rage...is what actually threatens systems like this. And clarity...is exactly what they do NOT want.

#HoldFast

-Jack

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Cherae Stone's avatar

You’re right, of course. I just have to walk it off, talk it out. . I need to find an old table so I can break some dishes and make a mosaic on the top. Filling in those spaces with coordinating, yet random pieces seems to calm me down. And the breaking is fun!

#HoldFast

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Mary E's avatar

From Nov 2024 ABCNews:

Private prison firms contributed more than $1M to Trump's reelection. Now they expect a business boom

One company estimated a potential $400 million annual revenue increase.

By Peter Charalambous and Laura Romero

November 20, 2024, 6:20 PM

https://abcnews.go.com/US/private-prison-firms-contributed-1m-trumps-reelection-now/story?id=116046776

From January 2025 ABCNews:

Private prison firm CoreCivic gave $500K to Trump's inauguration, highlighting industry's support

Total contributions to the committee surpassed $150 million to set a new record.

By Laura Romero, Peter Charalambous, and Soo Rin Kim

January 29, 2025, 10:43 AM

https://abcnews.go.com/US/private-prison-firm-corecivic-gave-500k-trumps-inauguration/story?id=118218707

Jack, I imagine all of us accept, to greater and lesser degrees, that politics is dirty business. I guess I have just never seen that on display as much as now. If you have time sometime, can you post on the relationship, if any, between shame and honor?

Over the past few years, I have begun to wonder if operating with a sense of honor is a guaranteed loss, when up against a challenger who gets as much of a kick out of operating (flagrantly) outside of the rules as accomplishing whatever the goal is.

Early yesterday evening, I tuned into an interview on NPR. I believe the person being interviewed was journalist Chris Whipple. During one of his many interviews with Susie Wiles, he asked about the public’s reaction to tearing down the east wing. He relayed Susie Wiles’ response as the public’s opinion will change when they see the bigger picture. He then asked if there was more to come and reportedly Susie Wiles said yes but would not give details.

Can there be a business model that is simply do whatever you want without regard to those who ultimately pay for the action and/or without regard to the expressed sentiments of the majority against the action?

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Julie JF's avatar

I 100% agree with your diagnosis of the for-profit prison problem. That's why my organization won't consider working with for-profit facilities. That said, the question and motivation you ask readers to consider extend throughout the carceral system. You asked:

“Who profits when enforcement expands?”

Because once fear becomes a business model…it must be sustained.

The county jail where I live contracts with the federal bureau of prisons to house "overflow" inmates. So housing federal inmates is a revenue stream for the county. And even in the federal and state systems, each incarcerated individual is an invoice. Private prisons are the worst, but incarceration is big business at all levels.

And fear sells well, beyond immigration. The U.S. incarcerates more of its population than almost any other country, especially developed democracies.

I recently read The Science of Revenge for professional reading. I'll use it to develop a new chapter for our curriculum. I'd be really interested in hearing your take on that book, Jack.

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Jack Hopkins's avatar

Julie, you are absolutely right...and I’m glad you pushed the lens WIDER.

For-profit detention...is the most grotesque version of the problem...but it isn’t the whole problem. It’s the sharpest edge...of a much larger blade.

The moment incarceration becomes a revenue stream...incentives begin to warp...no matter who technically owns the facility. When counties rely on federal contracts to house “overflow” inmates...detention becomes a budget stabilizer.

When states are paid per head...every incarcerated person becomes an invoice. (Anyone else reading this, should read that sentence again.)

Even in fully public systems...human confinement gets translated into line items...staffing formulas...and occupancy pressure.

Private prisons didn’t invent this logic.

They PERFECTED it.

Which is why your point matters, Julie. The question “Who profits when enforcement expands?” doesn’t stop at ICE. It echoes through county jails...state systems...and federal prisons alike. Anywhere fear justifies expansion...money quietly follows.

You’re also right about fear’s broader market appeal.

Immigration is only one channel. Crime. Drugs. Disorder. “Public safety.” Each can be inflated...simplified...and weaponized.

And the U.S. incarceration rate...especially compared to peer democracies...makes it clear this isn’t about uniquely dangerous people. It’s about policy choices...cultural narratives...and a deep-rooted APPETITE... for punishment...over prevention.

Your mention of The Science of Revenge is especially telling. Revenge feels righteous. It feels emotionally satisfying. But the research consistently shows it doesn’t heal trauma...it prolongs it.

Systems built around retribution don’t reduce harm...they recycle it. That applies at the individual level and the institutional one.

My take...in short: a carceral system optimized for punishment...will always find reasons to punish. ALWAYS. And a society that monetizes confinement...will struggle to imagine justice without cages.

I’d genuinely like to hear how you’re integrating that book into your curriculum. If we don’t teach people why revenge feels good...and why it ultimately fails...we leave fear-based systems intact...just with better branding.

This is exactly the kind of conversation that needs to happen, if we’re serious about reform...rather than rearranging the furniture.

Thank you for advancing it!

Now, about The Science of Revenge. (Which I read in late June this past summer as I recall) It doe NOT shame you for wanting revenge. That grabbed me from the start.

Instead...it calmly explains why revenge feels so good in the moment...right down to the brain chemistry...and then does something far more effective than moralizing...and, as you know...it shows you...step by step...why that good feeling is a LIE...and one that expires fast...and leaves you worse off than before. That...is critical.

I liked that the book doesn’t talk in abstractions...or therapy-speak....it sticks to evidence... experiments...and hard results...and it keeps hammering the same uncomfortable truth: retaliation doesn’t close the wound...it keeps it OPEN.

That insight doesn’t just apply to individuals...either. You can see it scale up instantly...to justice systems...prisons...and entire societies that mistake punishment for resolution. What else did I like? By the time you finish...you’re not being told “revenge is bad.” You’ve seen why it doesn’t work...and once you see that...you can’t unsee it.

It was structured in a way similar to how I think...and that was a big plus for me.

-Jack

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Julie JF's avatar

Thank you again, Jack. I'm going to take time to reply. I have too much to say, but I'll be back to this thread.

I've had the opportunity to speak with James Kimmel, author of The Science of Revenge, and I have so many thoughts that I'd like to share.

I'll be happy to share what I'm developing for our curriculum with you and this community, too.

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Jacqueline Powell's avatar

And all in the name od the despotic, Trump, Vance, Johnson, Noem, Homan, and the border leader. Each of these including everyone employed by the private companiesc and ICE who are exercising crimes against humanity such as use of excessive force, brutal beatings and punishments, irregular meals woth inadequate calories to create hunger, unsanitary conditions, overcrowding, unsafe water, limited opportunities for bathing, failure to obtain or delay medical care, sleep deprivation and night time awakening and rapes.

The guards have committed more crimes than those they are perpetrating their violence and deaths.

It begs the statement that these are not detention centres, they are Concentration Centres akin to those of the holocaust and CECOT.

Why are Americansxallowing this to happen.

Could it be that the breadth and depth of undue racism in American Society has fed and supported this to occur. Some appear to be appalled by the regimes aggression and are starting to speak out. Others are totally with Trump. All I can say, is that you need to read what occurred to the antisemites of Germany and Erope once their regimes failed.

They will have to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives.

This will not stop racism. It apoears that families indoctrinate their families with it and they do not consider humanity.

I find some of their comments are rabit hatred.

The US will never grow to be a humane country until the atrocity od racism and its current consequences sufferred by innocent, Christian people is assertively conquered in the US.

Racism is wrong and needs to be stopped by good people.

This begs the question regarding who should be in prison? Not the detainees!!!!.

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Jack Hopkins's avatar

Jacqueline...and what makes it even harder to stomach...is watching it carried out in the name of political leaders...who know EXACTLY what kind of system they are unleashing.

Trump.

Vance.

Johnson.

Noem.

Homan.

And....those charged with running the border apparatus.

They don’t need to PERSONALLY throw punches to bear responsibility. Power doesn’t work that way. When leaders design...defend...and expand a system...that predictably produces abuse...cruelty becomes a feature...not a bug.

What’s being reported...documented...and testified to again and again is not “isolated misconduct.” It is a pattern:

*Excessive force.

*Brutal beatings and punitive treatment.

*Irregular meals with inadequate calories.

*Overcrowding.

*Unsanitary conditions.

*Unsafe or limited water access.

*Restricted bathing.

*Delayed or denied medical care.

*Sleep deprivation through nighttime awakenings.

*Sexual abuse and assault.

When these conditions persist across facilities...across contractors...across states...the honest word for it is systemic.

And when the people wielding power inside those facilities...routinely inflict more harm than the people confined there are accused of committing...we have crossed a moral line that should DEEPLY concern any society that still claims to believe in law...justice...or human dignity.

At that point...we should stop pretending these are merely “detention centers.”

They are concentration centers...not identical to history’s worst atrocities...but frighteningly familiar in structure...logic...and dehumanization.

Anyone who insists comparisons must wait until the body count is higher...has learned NOTHING from history at all.

The most disturbing question isn’t what’s happening inside these facilities.

It’s this:

Why are so many Americans ALLOWING it to happen?

Part of the answer is uncomfortable...but unavoidable.

Racism...deep...inherited...normalized racism...has helped make this possible.

When people are defined as “other,”...when their humanity is conditional...cruelty becomes easier to justify...easier to ignore...easier to excuse as “policy.”

Some Americans are beginning to recoil. They are speaking out. They are recognizing that something fundamental...has gone very wrong.

Others are ALL in. Cheering. Mocking. Dehumanizing.

History is very clear about what happens next. Those who supported regimes built on hatred didn’t escape accountability...simply because time passed. They carried the moral weight of what they enabled for the rest of their lives...whether they admitted it...or not.

And...no...this will not magically end racism. Families pass it down. Communities normalize it. People mistake it for “tradition” or “truth.” Hatred replicates...unless it is CONFRONTED.

The United States will never become a truly humane country until racism...and its very real...very current consequences...are confronted directly and defeated by people willing to ACT...not just tut-tut...from a distance.

Which brings us to the most honest question of all:

Who should really be in prison?

Because I'll tell you something you already know; it sure as hell isn’t the detainees.

And deep down...MANY people know that.

They’re just hoping someone else...will say it first.

#HoldFast

-Jack

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Karen Scofield's avatar

This is another Ugly time in our History, Jack. Thank you for doing all the research here, it's helpful for us to see the political landscape unfolding right before our eyes. What a sad state of affairs my friend, Thank you and will reStack ASAP 🙏

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Jack Hopkins's avatar

Karen...it really is an ugly chapter...and you’re right to call it that.

History rarely announces itself as “history” while you’re living through it. It just shows you patterns...and asks whether you’re paying attention.

I appreciate you taking the time to read closely...and to engage with the research. That’s how this kind of work matters...when people use it to orient themselves...instead of turning away because it’s uncomfortable.

As bleak as this moment feels...the fact that people are seeing the landscape clearly.. naming it honestly...and choosing to speak or act anyway...is NOT nothing. That’s how accountability ever starts.

Thank you for being here...and for helping keep this visible.

-Jack

P.S. Earlier today, I saw a woman holding her baby. The look on her face stopped me. It was pure...unfiltered bliss. The kind you only see...when someone is fully in the moment ...and not trying to be anywhere else.

What I was watching...that’s reality too. Not just the anger in the world...not just the cruelty...not just the hell of it all. Beauty...and ugliness...coexist. They always have. Even when it feels like hell...is all that exists...life keeps offering moments of quiet joy...whether we’re looking for them...or not.

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Concerned Citizen's avatar

Such a grift!

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Jack Hopkins's avatar

It is. All this corrupt human being has done...to the tune of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS...is grift, and hasn't given a damn thing...in return.

-Jack

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PKO99's avatar

Andor, anyone? They had a quota of prisoners too, in order to please emperor and create his war machine. this is getting closer to the completed Deathstar by the day.

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Sue Player's avatar

donald trump and his cronies were involved up to their unholy eyeballs in child sex trafficking. It doesn't shock me that they realized their business model could be scaled up exponentially with Uncle Sam paying the bills. The depravity shown by the guards in these profit centers is fast approaching that of any of the world's past and present despots, and it is encouraged by this administration. Nor would I be shocked (sickened, yes) to find the inhumane treatment, rape, and torture of the detainees is being filmed, and children removed from one Hell and sent to another. To them, those without any moral compass, just another revenue stream.

Those in government still in position to somehow cut this monster off from the money train better do it fast, hard, and thoroughly. And the voting public best make sure that the enablers are voted out.

#HoldFast

Sue

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Alexa Russell's avatar

Leaving one to wonder how many more times this scenario will play out as our communities continue to prepare and ‘be on the ready’ for climate and man made disaster after disaster, now, knowing the federal government no longer has our back (s). A disarrangement of our tax payer dollars under the guise of a street mobster’s control.

A 14 day per person allotment, without repayment from any electric company, is unreasonable, unless, they pay for the needs of the community at large? The only reimbursement (s) are for electronics, not food.

Since there are no coincidences, it is very unfortunate that, for example, the ‘use only electric’ appliances recommendation, when a prepared person has LNG as a back up for short term outages, what are ‘we’ to do when a promise made becomes a promise broken?

Broken promises appear to be the ‘norm’ so, who are ‘we’ to believe when the power structure is broken on so many levels??? So many questions yet so few answers.

Thank you Jack for fielding these questions while our communities wait in need. You are the best. Stand Strong. Aloha, Alexa Hawai’i.

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HKJANE's avatar

Exactly right. When detention equals revenue, the system is incentivized to detain more people, longer. That’s not enforcement — it’s a racket. Kudos!

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