I say YES. Until I read about ICE whistleblowers stepping forward and naming names, then Yes, they are all thugs. I know there’s a phrase that includes something about a ‘blue line’ indicating some law enforcement will turn a blind eye to misconduct by one of their own but I don’t embrace it. This conduct by ICE is heinous; it needs to stop from within.
Jonathan Ross (Renee Good)
Ochoa and Gutierrez (Alex Pretti)
Brian Palacios (Keith Porter)
Are these four alleged thugs still sporting a uniform?
Mary E...I understand the emotion behind that. Absolutely.
And, here's why it's critical we stay clear-headed...even while feeling intense emotions: The statistical likelihood of every single ICE agent being a "thug" who treats human beings like the ICE agent/s discussed in this article, or those four you mentioned...is ZERO.
You couldn't get that kind of consistency out of an agency that large...even if that was your ONLY objective.
Do I think the leadership...and people like Tom Homan, Trump, etc. are thugs? Of course.
However, if we fall into the "ALL ICE agents are thugs" trap, we are stepping into the same trap as those who conclude all blacks rape and murder white people...all because we see those crimes by black criminals being shown on the news.
In truth, regarding Black Americans, well over three-quarters of adults...have NEVER been convicted of a felony...and about 98% are not incarcerated at any given moment.
My focus is on making sure our arguments stand a chance of being taken seriously. The moment I get sloppy and write something like, "Every single one of the some 22,000 ICE agents are thugs!" someone would likely say, "What are your sources for that?" Then, I'd have to say...I don't have anything to back that up.
So, it's better if I talk about the agency as an entity...being thugish in what is being allowed, tolerated, or ordered by leadership, and if pointing out a 'thug,' specify a certain instance...and a particular agent/agents.
You're spot ON...emotionally...and with your passion and intensity about this...and...we NEED that. I just want to make sure I don't make our cause...sound as flakey as the people committing these crimes and atrocities.
Thank you, Peggy. The last couple of days have found a bit more emotion to find its way into my writing; not through any conscious decision...it's simply spilling over, naturally, because...as you beautifully mirrored back to me: I/we are sick of this shit!
And of course, criminal - premeditated, and as sadistic as has occurred at any other time in history that we look back at as "dark ages" in an "uncivilized" world
(Hits me particularly hard as - albeit it was some 50 years ago - I knew that corner very well. While attending Northwestern, I had several friends who lived within a block or two of where it happened. I'd pass there several times per week.)
I love the straight up attack you made with this post. It is all 100% true and there are idiots that will not agree with us but if it happens to one of their family members they will explode. The lawlessness is beyond way out of control. I want all of the brought to justice when we regain our country. All of the veterans of the recent wars and the viet nam ere are ready to tear down anything that drumpf is building..the arch, the epstein ball room as some call it, all of it and his name is to be removed from everything just like they did with hitler...
Never thought that I would see this crap going on in this country. I never thought that this many violent people join an organization like ICE. An organization which has
I’m just so spittin’ MAD! I feel disappointed, betrayed, heartbroken. I sat in Jiffy-Lube while my car was getting serviced in the middle of a discussion about the “situation” yesterday.
Everybody was all whiny, all “thus and so needs to happen. . and “everything is so expensive”. . “the Bible says blah, blah, blah”. . “and there’s nothing we can do about it.. “ Ok. I took it with only mild rebuttal about the Bible references (yes, I have studied that stuff and have documentation of same) but when they got to the part about our being powerless I lost it on those poor men. To the point that I opened the door and asked all the guys outside if they had a plan to vote. We came up with one for everyone there before I was finished with them.
Powerless, my li’l flat Cherokee ass! It’s a good thing that manager is a solid guy and that my car was ready! He knows I like FANTA pineapple soda, so he smiled and handed me one as he held the door open for me and called me ma’am as I left. Wish I could recall all of what I said. I was shaking.
I only said “damn” one time, but their eyes were as big as saucers.
Oh, I can’t EVEN with this VIOLENT government sanctioned behavior!!!!
And then they just LEFT him there!!! I hope somebody’s asses get sued from here to the devil and back!!! From the individuals all the way to the top of the administration. OMFG!
Jack this left me with dread.. I’m pretty pale now since I’m in the snow zone in Nor Cal.. but I’m clearly not white since everyone asks me what am I .. this administration only wants an all white aryan nation.. being half Hawaiian and half Norwegian.. they act first and think never.. honestly I don’t like going anywhere any longer.. the dumbass stoopid level is off the fucking charts.
I may piss some people off here, but who remembers 2020 and George Floyd. And since then, and before then - Here is a list of names: https://sayevery.name/say-their-names-list. This doesn't include the EJI Legacy Museum of Black people who were lynched and the evidence that has been found around the country: https://legacysites.eji.org/about/museum/. I don't read every post, but this one hit me. When Black people said to pay attention because it has been happening to us forever, and it would happen to people who were not Black, we got push back. This is why I write about and teach about Black history. It all matters and we were not trained that it did. Thanks for sharing but it has to be shared about all of the violence of "authority figures" in America and for how long it has gone on unchecked. Some of the questions that you asked and responded to are things that I and my family - my middle class Black family living in the same city since the early 1900s - have had to deal with. These are the things that make Black people not trust that the white people who say that they are allies really are, because a stop should have happened a very long time ago. That's all.
It hits hard. Evanston is where my daughter and Son in-law went to school. I'm angry and sick that any human is being treated this way. Being an American citizen doesn't matter any more to ICE. We have lost American citizens to ICE murderers and we have people in government sanctioned concentration camps. Call your Senators and representatives and VOTE, bring five. We need to vote in numbers to impossible to ignore #Holdfast
Will we ever get accountability for the murders, the abuse and those that have been “disappeared” from our neighborhoods, our streets and now being sent to God knows where! I am sick to the death of it all…the old saying a that fish rots from the head is perfect for this horrific regime, and our country is rotting away because of Donald J. Trump and his hate!
When they passed the Laken Riley Act, they proved that due process no longer matters. They don't need a reason to go after anyone.
No, A...they don't. We are watching straight-up lawlessness...and a castrated Congress...endorsing it with their silence.
-Jack
ICE WILL CONTINUE behaving the horrible way they do...
AS LONG AS WE LET THEM!
WE MUST rid our beloved America of the GOP maga DISEASE!
WE MUST TAKE BACK our Country!!
WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER and WE CAN DO THIS TOGETHER!!
ALL True...Sky Blue...ALL true.
-Jack
As always a great article. Love the fire & brutal truth. Thank you.
Thank you, Anna. I appreciate that.
You're welcome.
-Jack
No? Really?
“Are you saying all ICE agents are thugs?”
I say YES. Until I read about ICE whistleblowers stepping forward and naming names, then Yes, they are all thugs. I know there’s a phrase that includes something about a ‘blue line’ indicating some law enforcement will turn a blind eye to misconduct by one of their own but I don’t embrace it. This conduct by ICE is heinous; it needs to stop from within.
Jonathan Ross (Renee Good)
Ochoa and Gutierrez (Alex Pretti)
Brian Palacios (Keith Porter)
Are these four alleged thugs still sporting a uniform?
Mary E...I understand the emotion behind that. Absolutely.
And, here's why it's critical we stay clear-headed...even while feeling intense emotions: The statistical likelihood of every single ICE agent being a "thug" who treats human beings like the ICE agent/s discussed in this article, or those four you mentioned...is ZERO.
You couldn't get that kind of consistency out of an agency that large...even if that was your ONLY objective.
Do I think the leadership...and people like Tom Homan, Trump, etc. are thugs? Of course.
However, if we fall into the "ALL ICE agents are thugs" trap, we are stepping into the same trap as those who conclude all blacks rape and murder white people...all because we see those crimes by black criminals being shown on the news.
In truth, regarding Black Americans, well over three-quarters of adults...have NEVER been convicted of a felony...and about 98% are not incarcerated at any given moment.
My focus is on making sure our arguments stand a chance of being taken seriously. The moment I get sloppy and write something like, "Every single one of the some 22,000 ICE agents are thugs!" someone would likely say, "What are your sources for that?" Then, I'd have to say...I don't have anything to back that up.
So, it's better if I talk about the agency as an entity...being thugish in what is being allowed, tolerated, or ordered by leadership, and if pointing out a 'thug,' specify a certain instance...and a particular agent/agents.
You're spot ON...emotionally...and with your passion and intensity about this...and...we NEED that. I just want to make sure I don't make our cause...sound as flakey as the people committing these crimes and atrocities.
-Jack
Great article! You so perfectly said what I was feeling today! I’m sick of this shit and enough is enough.
Thank you, Peggy. The last couple of days have found a bit more emotion to find its way into my writing; not through any conscious decision...it's simply spilling over, naturally, because...as you beautifully mirrored back to me: I/we are sick of this shit!
-Jack
Horrendous
And of course, criminal - premeditated, and as sadistic as has occurred at any other time in history that we look back at as "dark ages" in an "uncivilized" world
(Hits me particularly hard as - albeit it was some 50 years ago - I knew that corner very well. While attending Northwestern, I had several friends who lived within a block or two of where it happened. I'd pass there several times per week.)
Dr. David...wow. Yes, I suspect that being in your old neck of the woods makes it BITE especially hard.
I agree: criminal, premeditated...and SADISTIC. Thank you...for saying it out loud.
-Jack
I love the straight up attack you made with this post. It is all 100% true and there are idiots that will not agree with us but if it happens to one of their family members they will explode. The lawlessness is beyond way out of control. I want all of the brought to justice when we regain our country. All of the veterans of the recent wars and the viet nam ere are ready to tear down anything that drumpf is building..the arch, the epstein ball room as some call it, all of it and his name is to be removed from everything just like they did with hitler...
#HOLDFAST
Teri
Teri, thank you.
You're right that it hits different...when it's your own family on the pavement. That's why we KEEP telling these stories.
Accountability is coming...I DO believe that...and...it'll come through courts and ballots... which is EXACTLY what scares them.
Thank you for being here...and being a fighter, Teri Gelini!
-Jack
Never thought that I would see this crap going on in this country. I never thought that this many violent people join an organization like ICE. An organization which has
John...neither did I. NEVER.
This represents a very dark period in our nation's history.
-Jack
Don’t care how you say and don’t care how you spell it. This ice stuff is fucked up!
For what exactly?
It’s gotta stop!
I’m just so spittin’ MAD! I feel disappointed, betrayed, heartbroken. I sat in Jiffy-Lube while my car was getting serviced in the middle of a discussion about the “situation” yesterday.
Everybody was all whiny, all “thus and so needs to happen. . and “everything is so expensive”. . “the Bible says blah, blah, blah”. . “and there’s nothing we can do about it.. “ Ok. I took it with only mild rebuttal about the Bible references (yes, I have studied that stuff and have documentation of same) but when they got to the part about our being powerless I lost it on those poor men. To the point that I opened the door and asked all the guys outside if they had a plan to vote. We came up with one for everyone there before I was finished with them.
Powerless, my li’l flat Cherokee ass! It’s a good thing that manager is a solid guy and that my car was ready! He knows I like FANTA pineapple soda, so he smiled and handed me one as he held the door open for me and called me ma’am as I left. Wish I could recall all of what I said. I was shaking.
I only said “damn” one time, but their eyes were as big as saucers.
Terry v Ohio, 1968. Maybe the most pro law enforcement Supreme Court ruling ever. And by one of the most liberal courts ever.
Does not allow this shit. I lived with it & by it in the 70s & 80s. It's not hard to do.
18 USC 242. Makes this shit a felony.
I believe covering up a felony is a felony.
We can ask Nixon.
Oh, I can’t EVEN with this VIOLENT government sanctioned behavior!!!!
And then they just LEFT him there!!! I hope somebody’s asses get sued from here to the devil and back!!! From the individuals all the way to the top of the administration. OMFG!
Jack this left me with dread.. I’m pretty pale now since I’m in the snow zone in Nor Cal.. but I’m clearly not white since everyone asks me what am I .. this administration only wants an all white aryan nation.. being half Hawaiian and half Norwegian.. they act first and think never.. honestly I don’t like going anywhere any longer.. the dumbass stoopid level is off the fucking charts.
I may piss some people off here, but who remembers 2020 and George Floyd. And since then, and before then - Here is a list of names: https://sayevery.name/say-their-names-list. This doesn't include the EJI Legacy Museum of Black people who were lynched and the evidence that has been found around the country: https://legacysites.eji.org/about/museum/. I don't read every post, but this one hit me. When Black people said to pay attention because it has been happening to us forever, and it would happen to people who were not Black, we got push back. This is why I write about and teach about Black history. It all matters and we were not trained that it did. Thanks for sharing but it has to be shared about all of the violence of "authority figures" in America and for how long it has gone on unchecked. Some of the questions that you asked and responded to are things that I and my family - my middle class Black family living in the same city since the early 1900s - have had to deal with. These are the things that make Black people not trust that the white people who say that they are allies really are, because a stop should have happened a very long time ago. That's all.
It hits hard. Evanston is where my daughter and Son in-law went to school. I'm angry and sick that any human is being treated this way. Being an American citizen doesn't matter any more to ICE. We have lost American citizens to ICE murderers and we have people in government sanctioned concentration camps. Call your Senators and representatives and VOTE, bring five. We need to vote in numbers to impossible to ignore #Holdfast
Will we ever get accountability for the murders, the abuse and those that have been “disappeared” from our neighborhoods, our streets and now being sent to God knows where! I am sick to the death of it all…the old saying a that fish rots from the head is perfect for this horrific regime, and our country is rotting away because of Donald J. Trump and his hate!
ENOUGH!!!